30fps and 60fps

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Triert
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30fps and 60fps

Post by Triert »

I've heard issues that PS4 and Xbox One has been using 30fps for their consoles and games whereas the Wii U has been using 60FPS.

How much truth is there to any of this?
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by EvilPinkamina »

[Random Obligatory Number]%

It is true that Wii U always releases their first party games at 60 fps

It is true that many games on PS4 and Xbone run at 30 fps.

However, some games run at 60 on PS4 depending on the optimization. I know the last of us remastered runs at 60.

Many companies either cut down on the textures (900p as oppose to 1080p) or just make lower res textures and upscale them (games using 720p textures and poofing them up ti fill a 1080p texture spot) to achieve 60 or even 30 fps.

I'd narrow it down to Nintendo knowing how to get everything out of their console, while third parties for Xbone and PS4 really don't as well, claiming that the hardware is "new hardware" *coughexceptthehardwarewasonpcifyoutwatswouldhavepayedattentioncough*
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by Chaos the Light Chao »

It's true.

Developers of the PS4 and Xbone tend to focus on detail and particle effects at the cost of FPS (Second Son and Sunset Overdrive pictures for reference), while Nintendo does the opposite and makes up for it with great art direction. In addition, while few games on any of the consoles have been running at 1080p natively (like Pink said, typically 900p upscaled to 1080p), some Wii U games like MK8 run at 720p natively.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by retrolinkx »

This generation is pretty stupid, developers aren't utilising the power of both consoles and instead are being lazy and lying to the consumer to make them think that 30fps is better when in reality 60fps is better.

In general, the Xbox and PS4 have their games capped at 30fps and 1080p because to the average player you don't see the former unless it dips into the 20's (which some games do and even then unless its pointed out to you, you may never see it) and so devs basically cap games at 30 since it's easier or the console cannot go higher than that at 1080p. The difference between 720p and 1080p is noticeable and so devs try to make sure their games run at 1080p (although some even lazier devs push for 900p)

While I may be blaming the devs too much here, both the Xbox and PS4 are weak consoles in comparison to what PC's can do and so games will never truly be able to run what PC's can at the highest levels and maintain a steady 60fps 1080p screen.

As for the Wii U, it's the weakest of the bunch and so the games it gets are either in the same boat but with Nintendo they know their system quite well and don't try to make it an underpowered PC, but it's still middle ground between the 7th gen and 8th gen, so Nintendo would rather focus on making their games look nice and run well depending on the game itself (Bayonetta 2 and MK8 are both 720p/60fps)

TL;DR:

Yes, the Wii U does have more 60fps games and yes the Xbox/PS4 do have more 30fps games, but remember none of the consoles have a true next gen 60fps/1080p game, it's either 30fps/1080p, 60fps/720p or 30fps/900p.
EvilPinkamina wrote:
However, some games run at 60 on PS4 depending on the optimization. I know the last of us remastered runs at 60.
TLoU remastered runs quite badly at 60, from what I've seen shadows and textures look blurry at 60fps since the system cannot render the game with the same quality and push it to 60fps when you compare it to 30fps, hell the worst I've seen is it go down to 45fps at times.

Incidentally, both Sony and Microsoft have to cut the resolution to be able to push for 60fps. Killzone ran at 960x1080p and Halo 2 Remastered ran at something like 1360x1080, although with a bit of AA you could probably hide a lot of the jaggies.

Also, don't let any devs fool you. 30fps is not a good framerate for games unless it's something that requires very little movement like a VN or a Cinematic game. 60fps is better and there is a difference. See for yourself
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by EvilPinkamina »

BUT THE CINEMATIC FEELS ON MY THIRD PERSON SHOOTER!!! 24 FPS IS PERFECT FOR THAT RIGHT?! MOVIES RUN AT 24 FPS AND THE HOBBIT LOOKED WEIRD AT 48 FPS SO CAPPING AT 24 FPS IS GOOD RIGHT?! AND THE BLACK BARS ABOVE AND BELOW! THOSE ARE GOOD I SWEAR!

in case the joke is missed on you, 24 fps, the framerate that most movies are filmed in, doesn't look or feel cinematic in an interactive experience. it looks jumpy and feels frustrating.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

^Wait, I thought most HD video was shot at at least 60 fps and only SD made regular use of not quite 24 fps.

Also, I'm pretty sure texture resolution and render resolution are separate variables regarding the fidelity of on-the-fly rendering and that terms like 720P and 1080P only apply to rendering resolution.

As for artificially capping at 30 fps, I was under the impression that capping at the highest stable frame rate was preferable to a fluctuating frame rate and that capping at 60 fps should only be done if it can be maintained at all times.

Can't really comment on the 720p vs 1080p considering I've played very few games that are rendered at resolutions above 480p and most of the game systems I've logged significant hours on have maximum resolutions lower than 480p(not that any seem to to suffer greatly for the lack of resolution once they get enough raw power for displaying quality sprites and halfway decent polygons).

And yeah, PCs aren't limited by having to stick to specific hardware for years at a time or keeping within a price point the average consumer can swallow. Probably doesn't help that we've kind of reached the point where graphics fidelity can't be significantly improved through raw power without that raw power increase being cost prohibitive for hardware targetted at the average consumer.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by Enzo03 »

retrolinkx wrote:Also, don't let any devs fool you. 30fps is not a good framerate for games unless it's something that requires very little movement like a VN or a Cinematic game. 60fps is better and there is a difference. See for yourself
wtf all i see is a black sreen on da rite. teh left looks rly cinematic tho
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by Rajikaru »

60 is good. 30 is bad. 120 is better than 60.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by EvilPinkamina »

Silly Console Plebeians wrote:The eye can't see more than 30 fps.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by SonicBoom »

I'm not sure higher is better for frames per second. My computer once hit ~2000 FPS on a game and it was far from enjoyable...
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by EvilPinkamina »

That's because you were playing a bad game or bad port :P
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by SonicBoom »

Well, the gameplay and control responsiveness was also just as high as the frame rate. Which category would that fall under between what you listed?
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by EvilPinkamina »

Depends on how solid the gameplay was, how the controls felt, as well as other factors like personal taste. From 2k frames though, it sounds like Minecraft.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by SonicBoom »

Well, the gameplay and controls were both too fast for much else to be noticed.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by EvilPinkamina »

If the speed of a game is attached to the framerate then that's a bad port.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by retrolinkx »

^

Yes, this is why when you emulate games and turn off the frame limiter the game speeds up since it shouldn't be going above 60fps or the game will speed up.

On actual games like L4D2 for example, you can have 300 or so frames and the game won't speed up because the frames aren't linked to the speed. I believe Need for Speed on the PC messed this up and having higher frames means faster gameplay.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by Enzo03 »

Specifically, Need For Speed: Rivals.

Earlier games - by the same developers, mind you, did not have this issue. It's lazy development.

but dats ok cuz u cant c mor then 30 fps rite? if u show moer fps it looks to real so it looks worse
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by Rajikaru »

To be fair, for those in the gaming community that aren't informed, 30 fps is just fine. Hell, I knew about 60fps waaay before I got Borderlands 2, and I played at 30fps for most of my first playthrough just fine. Of course as soon as I realized I could go up to 60 I switched and never looked back, but it's fair to assume the companies are preying on those who play video games and aren't aware of what a difference 60fps makes.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by EvilPinkamina »

That's why we over at /r/pcmasterrace refer to them as "plebians." They are ignorant of their position in gaming society.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by retrolinkx »

eww

idort master race over here

keep calling others plebs while i can play the games pc will NEVER EVER get along with superior multiplats on PC
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by MarkeySpirit »

60 fps is great to play on. Though I don't mind playing 30 fps, anything lower than 30 fps is bad. I honestly think a game should only be played at 60 fps if it'll stay at 60 fps. It's better to have a constant fps than one that dips.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by EvilPinkamina »

retrolinkx wrote:eww

idort master race over here

keep calling others plebs while i can play the games pc will NEVER EVER get along with superior multiplats on PC
You mean the Kingdom Hearts games?
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by Enzo03 »

"ya but emulaton is not as gud as teh rael deal and iz slow and crashjy bugy lolol"
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by retrolinkx »

EvilPinkamina wrote:
retrolinkx wrote:eww

idort master race over here

keep calling others plebs while i can play the games pc will NEVER EVER get along with superior multiplats on PC
You mean the Kingdom Hearts games?
But you'll NEVER EVER get Xbox original emulation.

Enjoy never playing the superior mutliplats, and original Xbox exclusives that never saw another game on any other console.

It hurts that we'll never get Orignal Xbox Emulation on PC. I'd love to play exclusives in glorious widescreen 1080p.
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Re: 30fps and 60fps

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

Huh? I would have thought the original Xbox being x86 would make it one of the easier consoles in it's power range to emulate on PCs. Is there something about tthe mainstream 6th Gen console I have the least interest in that makes it harder to emulate than it should be at a cursory glance?

Also, never is a strong word, and even with the dimishing returns stronger hardware is getting for gaming, I find it hard to believe any system made to date can't eventually be emulated given enough raw processing power.

Also, I thought the PC master race was all about 120 fps on account of 95 fps being the predicted threshold for avoiding VR sickness in the mass majority of people and 120 being the lowest multiple of 30 above that limit. Then again, I've also heard that Mindcraft with VR hacks feels more real at 1000 fps than *insert random hyper-realistic AAA-title here* does at 30 fps.

Also, I remember that, back in the 16-bit days, Europeans were constantly complaining about how much their 50 fps consoles sucked compared to the 60 fps models the US and Japan got, so either higher resolutions have made framerates less noticeable or the portion of gamers that care about framerates has gone down significantly in the last 20 years.
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