Games Canon Game 5 - Results In

[Lamby]

Welcome to something called the Games Canon Game. Our goal is to assemble a top ten list of the best games of all time according to the games' players. You will be expected to have a decent understanding of video game history or if you do not, a way to research games you are unfamiliar with (e.g. the Internet.)

Here are the rules. I have updated them. Red font signifies new rules. Read them carefully:

1. We’ll start with the list that you'll find below. Reply here with an affirmative message (eg. “put me in, coach, I’m ready to rumble!”) and I’ll add your name to our queue. We’ll start when I’ve received 7-15 people, whereupon I’ll scramble the names and PM the list to the first player.

2. On your turn, you can make one of two moves: either swap the listed positions of any two games on the list, or remove a game and replace it with a new game in the same spot.

• -You may not remove a game from one position and put another game in at a different position; if you take out #7, you have to put the new one in at #7.
  -You may not skip your turn.
  -You will not be told what moves have led us to the point we’re at.(For this reason, I would ask any other players not to discuss their moves publicly, as well.)
  -You must add an explanation of your move, which I will publicize upon presenting the completed list. Try to use some discretion and objective reasoning, though. Your reasoning should be developed. Tell why it deserves the spot you placed it in. You should consider how your choice impacted gaming or other games or evaluate game mechanics if nothing else. "I have never heard of this game" or silly responses will not be accepted unless they're followed by or preceded by an actual explanation.
  -If I don’t hear back from you in a reasonable amount of time (2 days), I reserve the right to skip you and move on to the next player.

3. Once the previous player’s move has been made, I’ll send the updated list to the next random player. Repeat until complete.

4. When the game ends, I will write up a play by play of each round and post the final list, which will then be able to be discussed.

All past games are here as examples for newcomers:

search.php?keywords=Games+Canon+Game+&t ... mit=Search

The previous players made the following list.

The List:

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past
4. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
5. Rayman 2
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Halo: Combat Evolved
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario

1 is supposed to be the 'best' best, 10 is 'least best'.

Once the roster fills up, I will PM the list to the first person. They will send their choice back to me and I will forward the list and so on.

Example of Moves:

Spoiler:

A) A Change:

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. Super Mario 64
3. Metal Gear Solid
4. Chrono Trigger
5. Portal
6. Half-Life
7. World of Warcraft
8. StarCraft
9. Super Metroid
10. Tetris

to

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. Metroid Prime
3. Metal Gear Solid
4. Chrono Trigger
5. Portal
6. Half-Life
7. World of Warcraft
8. StarCraft
9. Super Metroid
10. Tetris

B) A Swap:

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. Super Mario 64
3. Metal Gear Solid
4. Chrono Trigger
5. Portal
6. Half-Life
7. World of Warcraft
8. StarCraft
9. Super Metroid
10. Tetris

to

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. Portal
3. Metal Gear Solid
4. Chrono Trigger
5. Super Mario 64
6. Half-Life
7. World of Warcraft
8. StarCraft
9. Super Metroid
10. Tetris

Remember, you can only do one of those two things on your turn.

Participants:

1. Maximilian Roivas
2. SkyGinge
3. Ivogoji
4. Corvo
5. Enzo03
6. Starmy
7. ThisIsTheUltimate
8. PinkIceFox
9. Retrolinkx

[Dr. Roivas]

OOH OOH OOH OOH

i want to join again

[SkyGinge]

I'll also join this again. I'm hoping that I can at least comment reasonably seeing as at the moment it seems that I haven't played most of the games on the current list yet.

[Ivogoji]

I'm not about to break tradition!

[Corvo]

I was in the last four.

I'll be in this one too.

[Enzo03]

<-----------------------put this person in. He really wants to take part in this again.

[Starmy]

i hear the signal
time to come back from the dead
if only for this game at least i cant be breaking tradition either

[Prince Ricard]

I'll do this I guess

[PinkIceFox]

I'mma join.

[retrolinkx]

Sure, join me up.

I swear if Skyrim is on that list again...

[Lamby]

I would like to see everyone make a case for the move they make, starting with objective reasoning (game innovations, mechanics, impact on the industry, etc.) then moving to their opinion on why their choice is better. People typically disagree with each other on this list, but it's much easier to debate when we aren't left scratching our heads about each others choices.

Sign-ups end tonight.

[Lamby]

First PM sent.

[Ivogoji]

This is a long game.

[Lamby]

I'm going to have to skip TITU, I just realized he went on vacation. Sorry it's slow, I've been holding onto it for two days.

[Lamby]

Two more rounds left.

[Ivogoji]

Those are some long two rounds.

[Lamby]

Finalizing results today.

[Lamby]

Results are in.

Final List:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: Ocarina of Time
4. Dark Souls
5. Shenmue
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Roller Coaster Tycoon 2
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

You guys were relentless on each others' moves this time around. About three or more of you were completely erased the very next turn. My only qualm is that we seem to have an over-saturation of the action/RPG umbrella. As usual, I have a break down of rounds below.

Round One: IVOGOJI

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past
4. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
5. Rayman 2
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Halo: Combat Evolved
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario > Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

In not so many words, I feel TTYD was an improvement over its predecessor in terms of story telling and plot, as well as making the paper world concept more than just aesthetic by giving Mario the ability to fold into various shapes. While not as innovative as Sticker Star it arguably had stronger writing and will, most likely, reach more players in its time than the handheld instalment. Comparing TTYD to Super Paper Mario is difficult since the third game isn't a traditional RPG, with its own gameplay and approach to story telling, but criticism for SPM has always been sharper and its ratings aren't as high. Though its only by a narrow margin, The Thousand-Year Door's reception has always been the best out of the Paper Mario series and that should help it shoulder its way into the list.

I don’t have much to say about this one as it’s a pretty safe move that I don’t think anyone will argue. TTYD addressed most of the criticisms with the original: repetitive battles, simple puzzles, and lack of strategy in boss fights, so from a technical standpoint, I think it would be hard to argue this.

Round Two: ENZO03

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past
4. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
5. Rayman 2
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Halo: Combat Evolved > Crazy Taxi
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door


Why?

For managing to simultaneously be one of the stupidest and one of the smartest racing games of all time.
As zany as the gameplay is, it manages to be highly nuanced and extremely consistent, serving as a testament to SEGA's ability to make arcade physics that act so wrong (compared to real life) but feel so right.

Take, for example, trying to pick up someone for a fare in arcade mode. You can barrel into them at 60 or 70 MPH, slam on the brakes to stop, and scare the crap out of them. They run away before running back to your cab to climb inside; already the game has taught you a lesson against recklessness and haste while at the same time embracing carefully planned/timed actions. You have to learn how to stop as close to customers as possible without causing them to scramble away in fear. Need to be facing the direction from whence you came upon picking someone up? Throw in a Crazy Drift to swing your car around. Just remember that the haste lesson still applies. They're in the cab and you're ready to go? Now you can be hasty, just be sure you use a Crazy Boost instead of just flooring it. That's just the tip of the iceberg at that. And by the way, you might want to learn the city map; it's freeroam - but you don't get the chance to explore it all in one go.

If you grab the home console version and take up the Crazy Box driving challenges, the game showcases just how nuanced and smart it really is. You think you can get big air when you hit that ramp? Try the long jump challenge; you'll need a Crazy Boost just to succeed. You think you're good at drifting? Try the platforming challenge where you must hit each ramp with a perfectly timed drift. You think you know the city? Try driving a single passenger from one end of town to the other in only a matter of minutes.

When I could finally look at the game in this light, it blew my mind.

I will just say you are my favorite participant because you always present convincing cases about games I'd never think of. That said, it certainly has more innovation.

Round Three: RETROLINKX

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past
4. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
5. Rayman 2 > Shenmue
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Crazy Taxi
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

I don't really see a reason for Rayman 2 to be here, it's just another platformer, most of the other games on here are pretty original (Okami, Crazy Taxi), interesting (LOZ: Link to the past, Paper Mario) or different from the rest (Pokémon, FF6).

I added Shenmue because it is one of the best games ever made, a game from 1999 with incredible detailed graphics, and textures, NPC's that actually live lives, and fits all the categories I stated above, it's an original, interesting game, that's different from the rest. It was ambitious for it's time, something that was never seen before, with a budget exceeding $40 million, and it really shows. Shenmue influenced a lot of games like Heavy Rain, and the entire QTE concept (which was unfortunately butchered along the way). Shenmue was ahead of it's time, and it deserves a place on this list.

It even had working mirrors, tell me a game in 2013 that has that.

I agree that it was a benchmark game that deserves a spot on a list like this, as it usually is on many greatest games lists.

Round Four: CORVO

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past
4. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
5. Shenmue
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Crazy Taxi > Batman: Arkham City
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

As much as I love Crazy Taxi, it's not really for the Top 10 vidya of all time. Arkham City had a great story, lots of actually fun gameplay, and a beautifully disgusting world.

As much as I love Arkham City, I’m not sure I personally could really argue that it is among the best games ever made either. I’ve always considered it this generation’s Spiderman 2, as it’s more or less on par with modern action games with a very polished execution and more depth than is usual for other superhero games. Also Enzo will have a bone to pick with you...

Round Five: STARMY

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past
4. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney > Banjo-Kazooie
5. Shenmue
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Batman: Arkham City
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

THIS WAS A DIFFICULT LIST FOR ME COME ON GUYS
okami is still safe though and i hope it stays this way

but okay im going to do something a bit sacrilegious dont hurt me
Banjo-Kazooie is a game of my childhood. It's rather similar to Super Mario 64 in a lot of ways (like core gameplay mechanics and formula; go from hub world to separate worlds to collect x) but I feel builds expands off of it in regards to graphics and character. The characters in BK were all endearing and wonderful and it was a fully enjoyable game that left behind a good lineage afterwards (which was destroyed by Nuts & Bolts the trouble child but we don't talk about him.). I do know that Banjo-Tooie built off of its predecessor quite well but I've never played that game and therefore can't really speak for it.
Also the soundtrack is so memorable even someone like me can remember a majority of the tunes. It's just so great. This game is just so great okay
I love AA do not get me wrong but BK holds a special place in my heart and received rightful acclaim and its just good

BK was the culmination of an era of Mario and Crash Bandicoot and the game that set the bar for the polish of the platform-adventure genre and introduced staples such as a larger emphasis on exploration and seamless, breathing worlds that went on to influence games like Jak and Daxter and Ratchet and Clank. So I’m with you, though Tooie has certainly aged better.

Round Six: DR. ROIVAS

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past
4. Banjo Kazooie > Dark Souls
5. Shenmue
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Batman: Arkham City
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

I don't believe in a perfect game, there is literally no way something like that can exist.

Dark Souls is probably the closest I can get though, with fantastic gameplay, great music, plenty of lovable characters, and easily one of the best stories in a video game I have ever heard.

I've noticed that with a lot of hack and slashes and beat em ups and whatnot don't really feel like you're actually killing the enemy, it just feels like you hit them a bunch of times. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of games don't really have very satisfying kills. Dark Souls doesn't feel like them, when you kill an enemy in Dark Souls it is actually pretty a good kill, part of that I guess is because of a very satisfying cutting noise that plays whenever you kill an enemy. The actual combat in the game is amazing too, with a great combo of fighting and strategy involved. You can just try to hack and slash your way through the game, but don't expect to get far. You have to have a strategy before you fight enemies. A good example of this is in the Undead Church, on the second floor is a large group of weak hollows, the standard mook of the game. From my experiences this room exists to make a fool out of anyone who decides to rush in there, because they will gang up on you and eviscerate you faster than a ravenous hyena. You have pretty much poke your head through the doorway and take them out as they flood through, and it's amazing.

And the lore and characters are all amazing, and quite a few will leave you with an impression, one of my personal favorites being the Siegmeyer of Catarina, who you help through the game on more than one occasion. All along the way you think you're helping him, and then you find him in Lost Izalith. He agrees to help you escape from a group of monsters by sacrificing himself. You can either take him up on his offer or you can help him fight the monsters. If you choose to help him you find him later on at a place called Ash Lake. He is found dead with his daughter standing over him. An undead becomes hollow when they lose their humanity and their purpose in life. Siegmeyer's purpose is to adventure, and by helping him through every twist and turn you were sapping away his self confidence and his will to adventure. And when you finally save him for the last time you find him dead at his daughter's hand, and it is almost entirely your fault that this happened. There are also really subtle stories about characters that are just as amazing, one of my personal favorites being Knight Kirk, a notorious member of the Darkwraiths that you battle three times in total. After the third time you fight him you find his dead body near a character known as The Fair Lady, or Quelaag's Sister. Let's talk about her for a second. She willingly made herself fatally ill to save the people from a land known as Blighttown, and her sister Quelaag, a boss, has been collecting humanity to help her get better, humanity which she took from adventurers who came into her lair. When you kill Quelaag, it seems like you cut off The Fair Lady's humanity supply, but Kirk in fact was not a member of the darkwraiths, he just happened to have the means to invade people and steal their humanity. He was actually a Chaos Servant, a covenant dedicated to helping the fair lady get better by giving her humanity, and you don't realize this until it's too late. I like to imagine that after his final battle with you at Lost Izalith, he was somehow injured to the point of fatality. He managed to make his way back to the Fair Lady's chamber, where he attempted to say an apology to her for failing. He crawled over to a nearby wall, and that's where he died.

All in all, Dark Souls is easily the closest I have ever gotten to a perfect game, and the sequel looks even better so far!

I think it’s a fair trade. Dark Souls did for RPGs what Banjo did for platform-adventures.

Round Seven: THISISTHEULTIMATE

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past
4. Dark Souls
5. Shenmue
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Batman: Arkham City > Megaman Zero 3
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

I swapped Batman: Arkham City for Megaman Zero 3 in the 7 slot, because while it was likable enough, it does not strike me as that amazing of a game. I suppose this is a personal opinion, though, and I don't know all that much about it. Zero 3 is worthy of this list, as its powerful storyline, and what can definitely be considered the most refined gameplay of the Zero series, on top of a great challenge, make it an incredibly memorable game.

I'm not sure what I think about this one. Both games are quite polished, but as for memorable, from a technical standpoint, I don't really know if they've shaped their respective genres.

Round Eight: SKYGINGE

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: A Link to the Past > LOZ: Ocarina of Time
4. Dark Souls
5. Shenmue
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Megaman Zero 3
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

Now, don't get me wrong, A Link to the Past is still an amazing game. Scoring an impressive 39/40 with Familtsu, it was released to critical acclaim and laid down many foundations that future Zelda games would build upon.

Yet nobody can deny the classic that is Ocarina of Time. Perhaps te overall most popular game in an incredibly well acknowledged series of games, Ocarina of Time gets the spot because it was revolutionary. One of the only games (at least at the time) to score 40/40 with Famitsu, it is claimed by many to be one of the greatest video games ever made, a feat A Link to the Past hasn't achieved. It introduced the target locking system and context sensitive controls that have since defined the genre, and in 2008 and 2010, Guinness World Records declared that Ocarina of Time is the highest-rated game ever reviewed.

Some Zelda fans find gameplay slightly outdated and find newer games in the series to be better, but think of it this way. If Ocarina of Time hadn't been made then the whole adventure game genre would have developed in a completely different way. Add in loveable characters, interesting puzzles and the introduction of races such as the Gorons that would go on to be a staple part of the series, Ocarina of Time is an instant classic that is well worthy of a place on this list.

I would argue that this lock on system could have come about regardless, if only because the frustrating camera of Mario 64 was fresh on developers’ minds. To that end, games like Tomb Raider (1996) were already dabbling in puzzle solving and targeting enemies. TR and similar also introduced dodging mechanics, swimming, rolling and even context sensitive buttons in terms of quick weapon changes.

Round Nine: PINKICEFOX

Spoiler:

1. Final Fantasy 6
2. Okami
3. LOZ: Ocarina of Time
4. Dark Souls
5. Shenmue
6. Pokemon Black/White 2
7. Megaman Zero 3 > Roller Coaster Tycoon 2
8. Portal 2
9. Eternal Darkness
10. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 was the sequel to Roller Coaster Tycoon, practically the leader of the generation of Tycoon style games that followed. It's what made the Tycoon name popular. And RCT2 fixed some of the issues fans had with the first game and added more rides, stalls, and decorations to make park building even more fun! The game was applauded for its realistic roller coaster physics by roller coaster fans, and the park management simulation is really fun. In the second game all of the scenarios are open for play right away, so impatient fans don't have to work their way through each one to get the next. IT also allows you to make custom scenarios, including scenarios where money is not a part of your park, allowing for free building! Plus, if you're frusterated, you can make a coaster that doesn't compete it's run just to blow up people, if you're into that sort of thing.

Yeah, I'd have to agree that RCT brought more to gaming shaping than MMZ3. To that end, I'm surprised its taken this long to see any type of simulator. Who remembers when the word simulator didn't instantly make you think of EA?

Sorry for the massive delay.

[SkyGinge]

Actually I'll take responsibility for the delay seeing as I likely caused it. I did find it very difficult to come up with anything and was very busy so apologies if my suggestion is subpar.

[Lamby]

Nah, I had things going on that kept me from cycling the list promptly. You used the allotted time I gave you; you were fine.

[Enzo03]

Kill Corvo.

[Ivogoji]

Wow, 7 isn't a very lucky number.

I'm probably happiest with this particular list out of the others created by the Game Canon Game so far. Though I'd be more satisfied if we had a few more Canon Games to hammer it out again. Like Batty said, the genre of games it covers could be more diverse, and so many moves canceled each other out that half the players didn't make an impact on the final list. But even then there are never really enough people involved in these Canon Games.

[Corvo]

Kill Corvo.

As much as I like Crazy Taxi, I don't think my descendants will know about it. Hell, most people today don't know about it.

[Dr. Roivas]

ETERNAL DARKNESS AND DARK SOULS ON THE SAME LIST

I

AM

IMMORTAL

[Prince Ricard]

seven is DEFINITELY not a lucky number