What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

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What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

Post by ElectricKoatHanger »

What happens if you transfer a bronze chao from SA1 into SA2? I've never seen any pictures of an SA2 bronze chao or heard anyone mention it being in the game, so what happens if you transfer one? Do you get a bronze chao, a normal two-tone, or do you just get a gold chao?

Thanks for the help! :darkhappy:
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Re: What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

Post by Akuhime-sama »

Bronze chao? What is this absurdity before my eyes?

The Jewel chao are as follows: Silver, Gold, The gemstones (Ruby, Sapphire, Garnet, Topaz, Emerald, Peridot, Aquamarine, and Amethyst), and Onyx.
Not sure if you'd call Onyx a gemstone or not, so I'm just going to leave it out of the mix

You can see them all here: https://chao-island.com/gallery/coloured-chao/jewel/
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Re: What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

Post by ElectricKoatHanger »

Akuhime-sama wrote: Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:53 am Bronze chao? What is this absurdity before my eyes?

The Jewel chao are as follows: Silver, Gold, The gemstones (Ruby, Sapphire, Garnet, Topaz, Emerald, Peridot, Aquamarine, and Amethyst), and Onyx.
Not sure if you'd call Onyx a gemstone or not, so I'm just going to leave it out of the mix

You can see them all here: https://chao-island.com/gallery/coloured-chao/jewel/
In SA1, by breeding a Gold Chao and a Two-Tone Black Chao, you can supposedly get a "Bronze Chao", which I can only describe as a darker variant of the Gold Chao. Apparently, it's a Dreamcast exclusive.
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Re: What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

Post by Akuhime-sama »

ElectricKoatHanger wrote: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:06 am In SA1, by breeding a Gold Chao and a Two-Tone Black Chao, you can supposedly get a "Bronze Chao", which I can only describe as a darker variant of the Gold Chao. Apparently, it's a Dreamcast exclusive.
Is there any proof for this? Screenshots? maybe a page showing it? because I've never heard of this in my life.

Also I heard that Jewels weren't accessible on Dreamcast. [Unless you hacked]
Do show me, if you can find more info for this.
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Re:

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

The Dreamcast version of Sonic Adventure had Adventure field eggs the same as SADX. Two of them, Gold and Silver, are more or less the same as the Gold and Silver Jewel Chao from the Gamecube and later ports, but while the third adventure field Egg is just a monotone black the same as you'd find in the Black Market, in SA1DC, its a Charon egg, which I understand to be similiar to, but not identical to, what we'd call a two-tone black in later versions.

As I understand it, normal, gold, silver, and charon were the only egg types available in SA1DC, and the breeding mechanics are completely different from later games. Sadly, like so much of the early installment weirdeness SA1DC is known for in regards to Chao, this isn't as well documented as the breeding mechanics common to SADX and SA2B.

Additional Jewel Chao were introduced in SA2, but aside from including the Moon Chao, SA2DC's Jewel Chao were only about half of those available from the TCG. Furthermore, they were only available as DLC from Sega's online Black Market, which is long defunct(though I think there might be a fan-hosted mirror the original game can be made to connect to). No clue if SA2DC retains SA1DC's weird breeding mechanics or is closer to the behavior shared across SA2B and SADX. I'm also not sure if the ability to buy monotone and shiny monotone eggs from an in-game Black Market was added in SA2DC or SA2B.

Also, while the Gamecube versions of the Adventure Duology allow two way transfers of Chao between SADX and SA2B, on Dreamcast, transfers were strictly one-way, generating an SA2DC compatible egg from a SA1DC Chao.

On a related note, the Steam version of SADX, as part of trying to make the base-game SA1DC and SADX DLC, also has weird Chao breeding mechanics, which I believe are shared with the PS360 versions of SA1. Whether these match the Dreamcast version or are weird in a different way, I have no idea, and as no one really cares about the steam version of SA1 since the original 2004 PC port of SADX, while having plenty of issues compared to the Dreamcast original and even the Gamecube port is vastly superior(hell, the most notable mod for the Steam version of SA1 basically converts it to the 04 port), it isn't well documented.

But yeah, both the question this thread was started for, and the questions it brings up fall into the big pile of "Someone really needs to play and document as much as possible of the versions that aren't SADXGC, SADXPC04, SA2BGC, or SA2BSteam", and Sadly, that requires either dealing with the oldest and rarest hardware these games were ever released on or an emulator thereof, or dealing with what are widely considered the worst ports of the games(SA2BSteam gets a pass on many things the port broke by simple virtue of being the first PC port of the game and thus the most viable target for modding). Hell, wish I could track down an iso of SA1DC and fire up a Dreamcast emulator just to experience some of SA1DC's unique features related to Chao, but being blind makes it doubtful I could get past the first menu to actual gameplay, forget getting far enough to enter a Chao garden, much less collect all the eggs.
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Re: What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

Post by ElectricKoatHanger »

Akuhime-sama wrote: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:54 am
ElectricKoatHanger wrote: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:06 am In SA1, by breeding a Gold Chao and a Two-Tone Black Chao, you can supposedly get a "Bronze Chao", which I can only describe as a darker variant of the Gold Chao. Apparently, it's a Dreamcast exclusive.
Is there any proof for this? Screenshots? maybe a page showing it? because I've never heard of this in my life.

Also I heard that Jewels weren't accessible on Dreamcast. [Unless you hacked]
Do show me, if you can find more info for this.
https://chao-island.com/info-center/advanced/colours/

If you scroll down to the section on SA1DC, not only does it elaborate on it, but there's also a picture.
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Re: Re:

Post by ElectricKoatHanger »

Jeffery Mewtamer wrote: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:33 pm The Dreamcast version of Sonic Adventure had Adventure field eggs the same as SADX. Two of them, Gold and Silver, are more or less the same as the Gold and Silver Jewel Chao from the Gamecube and later ports, but while the third adventure field Egg is just a monotone black the same as you'd find in the Black Market, in SA1DC, its a Charon egg, which I understand to be similiar to, but not identical to, what we'd call a two-tone black in later versions.

As I understand it, normal, gold, silver, and charon were the only egg types available in SA1DC, and the breeding mechanics are completely different from later games. Sadly, like so much of the early installment weirdeness SA1DC is known for in regards to Chao, this isn't as well documented as the breeding mechanics common to SADX and SA2B.

Additional Jewel Chao were introduced in SA2, but aside from including the Moon Chao, SA2DC's Jewel Chao were only about half of those available from the TCG. Furthermore, they were only available as DLC from Sega's online Black Market, which is long defunct(though I think there might be a fan-hosted mirror the original game can be made to connect to). No clue if SA2DC retains SA1DC's weird breeding mechanics or is closer to the behavior shared across SA2B and SADX. I'm also not sure if the ability to buy monotone and shiny monotone eggs from an in-game Black Market was added in SA2DC or SA2B.

Also, while the Gamecube versions of the Adventure Duology allow two way transfers of Chao between SADX and SA2B, on Dreamcast, transfers were strictly one-way, generating an SA2DC compatible egg from a SA1DC Chao.

On a related note, the Steam version of SADX, as part of trying to make the base-game SA1DC and SADX DLC, also has weird Chao breeding mechanics, which I believe are shared with the PS360 versions of SA1. Whether these match the Dreamcast version or are weird in a different way, I have no idea, and as no one really cares about the steam version of SA1 since the original 2004 PC port of SADX, while having plenty of issues compared to the Dreamcast original and even the Gamecube port is vastly superior(hell, the most notable mod for the Steam version of SA1 basically converts it to the 04 port), it isn't well documented.

But yeah, both the question this thread was started for, and the questions it brings up fall into the big pile of "Someone really needs to play and document as much as possible of the versions that aren't SADXGC, SADXPC04, SA2BGC, or SA2BSteam", and Sadly, that requires either dealing with the oldest and rarest hardware these games were ever released on or an emulator thereof, or dealing with what are widely considered the worst ports of the games(SA2BSteam gets a pass on many things the port broke by simple virtue of being the first PC port of the game and thus the most viable target for modding). Hell, wish I could track down an iso of SA1DC and fire up a Dreamcast emulator just to experience some of SA1DC's unique features related to Chao, but being blind makes it doubtful I could get past the first menu to actual gameplay, forget getting far enough to enter a Chao garden, much less collect all the eggs.
Huh, I have a Dreamcast. Maybe I could try documenting it, myself.

Also, I really agree with the last statement.The lack of general coverage of the game itself makes it really difficult to look up help on the internet for things like DC-only bugs and mechanics. (Never-less, the Chao Garden)
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Re: What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

Post by Akuhime-sama »

ElectricKoatHanger wrote: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:50 pm https://chao-island.com/info-center/advanced/colours/

If you scroll down to the section on SA1DC, not only does it elaborate on it, but there's also a picture.
Image

Well I'll be damned. Why has this never come up before? :thinking:
And I mean come up as in to my attention
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Re: What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

Post by Crazo3077 »

:surprise:

Put shortly, the Chao you are referring to becomes a Gold Chao, just as the Onyx Chao would become a Silver Chao. Because without a Shiny layer, the Jewel coat overshadows any underlying color, just like on Gamecube.

There are two reasons for this, which relate directly to the Chao's genotype, or genetic traits inherited from its parents, and phenotype, the observable characters that result from the genotype.

In SA1, Chao seem to have only 2 slots for genes, which we would now call Color and Jewel. So when a Gold Chao and a Black Chao breed, we would equally say a Gold Natural Chao and a Matte Black Chao. (I once did some breeding tests which suggest that the newborn Gold Chao and Silver Chao both carry the Natural Color Gene.) Because SA1 blends the only two genes to create the visual result, the Chao's genotype and phenotype are identical: a combination of the Color gene and Jewel gene. In the case of the Copper Chao, this is combining the Gold coat with the Black color, darkening the otherwise bright, glossy color.

SA2 on the other hand uses the same system we would see in every later port: four factors, one from each parent, and the ability to have recessive or masked genes. This system also has a hierarchy of genes, which causes any Chao with a Non-Shiny Jewel background (genotype) to have a Jewel appearance (phenotype). Unlike in SA1, the refined system does not have any genes that blend with the Jewel layer, making it impossible to darken any color.

A lot of people misattribute an excessive amount of mystery to the Dreamcast titles because more people actively play or remember playing the Gamecube versions or later. SA1 is the only weird one. SA2 just has a lot of cut content that debuted in SA2B, but few make that connection, especially when they don't know about the VMU Chao Editor programs.
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Re: What Happens if you Transfer a Bronze Chao into SA2?

Post by ElectricKoatHanger »

Crazo3077 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:55 pm :surprise:

Put shortly, the Chao you are referring to becomes a Gold Chao, just as the Onyx Chao would become a Silver Chao. Because without a Shiny layer, the Jewel coat overshadows any underlying color, just like on Gamecube.

There are two reasons for this, which relate directly to the Chao's genotype, or genetic traits inherited from its parents, and phenotype, the observable characters that result from the genotype.

In SA1, Chao seem to have only 2 slots for genes, which we would now call Color and Jewel. So when a Gold Chao and a Black Chao breed, we would equally say a Gold Natural Chao and a Matte Black Chao. (I once did some breeding tests which suggest that the newborn Gold Chao and Silver Chao both carry the Natural Color Gene.) Because SA1 blends the only two genes to create the visual result, the Chao's genotype and phenotype are identical: a combination of the Color gene and Jewel gene. In the case of the Copper Chao, this is combining the Gold coat with the Black color, darkening the otherwise bright, glossy color.

SA2 on the other hand uses the same system we would see in every later port: four factors, one from each parent, and the ability to have recessive or masked genes. This system also has a hierarchy of genes, which causes any Chao with a Non-Shiny Jewel background (genotype) to have a Jewel appearance (phenotype). Unlike in SA1, the refined system does not have any genes that blend with the Jewel layer, making it impossible to darken any color.

A lot of people misattribute an excessive amount of mystery to the Dreamcast titles because more people actively play or remember playing the Gamecube versions or later. SA1 is the only weird one. SA2 just has a lot of cut content that debuted in SA2B, but few make that connection, especially when they don't know about the VMU Chao Editor programs.
Thanks! Your comment is really helpful. :darkhappy:
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